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Post by irvsp on Sept 14, 2013 15:26:23 GMT
Yeah, one, and I do not recall which was for that. Yes, FOUND it, this one, support.microsoft.com/kb/2871777 and for ME it was IMPORTANT.... because of this: ================ Issue 2 When you install update 2821895 and then run the System File Checker tool, the tool reports that corrupted files are stored on the computer. ================ Remember I said I had SFC problems and I thought somewhere I saw something that a prior KB caused the problem? Well, since you made me look for the 'stack' one, I discovered that answer and WHY SFC now shows no problem! You can Google 'sfc 2821895' and see all about it, discovered in June, and at the end of June MS acknowledged it and posted a 'work around' that didn't work for everyone. Anyway, and UPDATE to my problem... It came back a few times. Took the cover off and found a LOT of dust bunnies, CPU was caked with dust on the heatsink behind the fan. A lot of dust overall (2 years since case was opened and cleaned). Cleaned all off and kept the case cover off and ran. Has not rebooted now with the cover off and dust cleaned for a few days. Still not sure if I was looking at a heat problem or h/w problem. Neither makes ANY sense to me, if it was either of those, even after the reboot it would crash for heat or a h/w problem? Why did the reboot 'cure' it?
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Post by irvsp on Jan 29, 2014 15:41:31 GMT
Folks, and update....
I was NEVER able to find the cause. Freeze and/or shutdown stopped any process that would write into the Event Log from happening. Lately I was actually getting BSOD's, but usually either Kernel problem or IRQL problem. Nothing in the collected dumps would even hint where to look or be the same data?
So I went onto 'changing' things. Long process as it was done one at a time. First removing unneeded auto-start applications I really didn't need. Then older programs I didn't need, even if they didn't auto-start, like Nero 8, way old, but it did start services and tasks.
Worst part, was that after doing ANY of these sorts of things, the problem went away ONLY to return again.
Updating to W8.1 seemed to make the matter worse. It would happen more often, and sometimes it took 2 or 3 re-boots to stabilize the system.
OK, bit the bullet and replaced the ATI Radeon HD4870 with an HD7770. The HD4870 did NOT have W8.1 drivers and even for W8, it was considered to be a 'legacy' device and no driver updates were done. I was having problems with the driver and Catalyst Control Center working together, so maybe that was the cause.
Put the new card in and shortly later the problem came back.
It was driving me NUTS as to why it kept coming back and once the 'episode' stopped the computer ran fine for the rest of the day, even if I had to re-boot.
So I again started cleaning the system but since Christmas time or so I couldn't really control it, worked OK one day, the next it didn't? Sometimes the OK/Bad cycle lasted for days being OK and then days of bad???
I scoured the web and I finally figured it was the end of the road and my rope and I'll get another computer. Buy why, when this one works it is fine. I must solve this, even if I have to replace every part. Thought was either the CPU or PSU... being a Dell with a 'vendor' case meant the PSU replacement could be a dog, and I did find some web info on doing this. CPU, and i7-920, might be hard to find new I thought.
More research on the web and I found ONE site with a forum thread that suggested running CHKDSK? Huh??? How could that effect it? No real details in the thread (no, I don't know where I saw this) other than someone said it worked?
So I pondered this? I have drives, 1 SSD with the OS on it, 2 mechanicals, 750GB's and 1TB. Swapper and backup (SSR2013) and some 'junk' are on the 1TB, the other holds data and no system files.
Thinking back, I did have a power drop a long time ago that dropped the computer (UPS batteries were OLD) and I replaced the UPS, cheaper than getting new batteries. In testing the new UPS it worked, but the first power drop it didn't. Discovered it wasn't the correct type 'totally'. It was an ARS model, which supplies a simulated wave, not the true wave. It will work in some instances but not all.
So I bit the bullet and tried all drives to run CHKDSK. All in W8.1 reported the drive in use and I scheduled them for reboot. OK rebooted. First the SSD was scanned, followed by the 2 other drives. No error report was shown, only progress, and then the next drive... and after the last one an automated reboot... and much to my surprise the SSD was scanned again and took a long (relative to the first scan) time? Oh no, is this going to continue on the other two and then repeat? SSD finished and the system booted. I searched ALL over for any log or error report. Never found any? Why did the SSD run twice with the second being longer? Something must have triggered that?
Oh well, and the result is that even 2 weeks later the problem has NOT returned!!!
I now suspect a power off before shutdown could be run corrupted the SSD. Most of my freezes occurred within the first 15 minutes and usually when I ran Firefox. I suspect a bad sector contents or SSD pointer depending on what needed to be loaded. Suspect is all it is though, I have no proof. Sort of makes sense though, especially if the SSD was in garbage collection mode when the power was lost. Doesn't explain why it would work OK for days though.
If it 'breaks' again, new computer time!!!! I don't doubt the removal of dust helped and replacing the video card was a wise thing to do but it really didn't solve the problem. Funny thing is I have another SSD sitting here. The old SSD that failed and I had returned under warranty and got a new unit back. When that happened I went out an bought a different SSD, SATAIII whereas the old one is SATAII and I have a SATAII computer. I was thinking of putting the replacement in at one point, but didn't want to bother. If I did, AND the CHKDSK problem was the fix, doing so swapping the drives would have 'possibly' fixed it too, assuming the IMAGE was OK, which I now doubt if there was corruption within some files. Would have though SFC would have found that but it possibly was in non-system files, like Firefox?
Oh well, lesson learned, but I don't know what I learned?
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Post by GuiltySpark on Jan 29, 2014 20:29:19 GMT
So my initial thought of trying the CHKDSK worked? What was difference between the initial chkdsk and this one? It baffles me for sure. I know what I've learnt from this.....don't touch Win 8 with a 10' barge pole
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Post by irvsp on Jan 30, 2014 12:53:19 GMT
So my initial thought of trying the CHKDSK worked? What was difference between the initial chkdsk and this one? It baffles me for sure. I know what I've learnt from this.....don't touch Win 8 with a 10' barge pole I really don't know? Long time ago, but even this time I did not see anything that indicated anywhere that anything was fixed? Usually you'd see the results on the screen, you know, what stage, what was fixed, and the end result of the disk size and allocations. Only saw the stages that were run, on all 3 drives and the 2nd time on the SSD? Don't forget, when I first posted this I was on W8, now on W8.1 and there could have been a change on how CHKDSK reports when being run during boot vs. how it reported under W8? All I can say is I probably had a few more clues I missed. This IS a Dell, and Dell's put up the first screen where you can press F2 to get into the BIOS or F12 to get to the start drive selection. When it is displayed a thin blue bar on the bottom of the screen advances in jumps. Well, randomly it would stop for a brief period about 4/5th's complete and then finish. Wife's Dell did not do this and mine did occasionally lately. Never was able to correlate that to the problem though. Also, the next screen, the blue windows flag and twirling dots below it. Those dots varied in the length of time before they would appear. Sometimes it was long, so long I looked to see if the disk indicator on the tower was one. Once it appeared the rest of the boot process after the dots twirled for a few seconds was 'normal' in that the time it took to get from that point to the desktop was always about the same. I had always assumed that the delay in the dots appearing was due to the SSD's garbage collection running? I might have been wrong on that as now that blue bar is running basically continuously across the screen with very brief stops at some points, just like my wife's system. Also those dots appear within seconds of the screen coming up. Funny part is that during this time I had absolutely NO indication there was a problem with the drive? I'm assuming it was the SSD not one of the others? Hard drive errors are not easy to see unless you actually load a corrupted file and can tell (bad data in a text or word file for instance) or an app complains about data. One would thing SFC would know if a system file was corrupted? I guess it is possible that the SSD would 'repair itself' when the system restarted without proper shutdown, Windows sometimes told me that was happening but not every time? The repair possibly just rebuilt some pointers? If the problem was other pointers bad, possibly only CHKDSK would repair those? Without a complete repair using data from a bad pointer would cause the problem? We may never know? I still might have it happen again, who knows?
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Post by irvsp on Apr 27, 2014 18:49:59 GMT
OK, I owe and update here (it you want it).
It just continued, problems for a few days, some days without any, ranging from 1 day to weeks.
With the Apr. 8th Win8.1 update it really accelerated. Almost every day, and differently too. Many more varying BSOD's, no two alike, freezes and re-boots. I created a quick CMD file to find ALL the files touched close to the freeze/BSOD/Re-boot time. A PC Mag. program What'sGoingOn2 would display the boot time, uptime, and the last shutdown time.
All the file searching generally pointed to Norton files, ATI files, and Windows files? Once even to a GARMIN GPS file and that device wasn't even attached. Event Viewer had useless info.
I had already replaced the video card and SSD. Ran MEMTEST86 for over 8 hours, no problems.
Nothing was a reliable fix.
So I really scoured the web and found ONE instance about this being caused by a PSU or capacitor on the motherboard. Great, but this is a Dell XPS Studio 1 435T, almost 5 years old. PSU's generally available are either scavenged or clearly marked used on E Bay. Not the most reliable sources for these. There are some possible replacements for up to $180USD but all I've seen mentioned in the web are NOT exact fits, either screw holes are not in the right place or some connectors have to be replaced or fiddled with. If it is the motherboard, even more expensive and less of a change getting anything but used.
So I bit the bullet (thanks to TECHBARGAINS.COM) for a new Dell.
So the FIRST thing I wanted to do was get it started and registered and then start loading it up and prep'ed for an SSD. Now it really takes someone who knows what he's doing to mess things up, and I DID!!!! Big time.
Recalling the hard time with Vista I had shrinking the C: drive using Windows Disk Manager, I went straight for AOAMI's Disk Manager. MISTAKE!!! I didn't realize it until I started the process it wasn't for W8.1!!!
Anyway I gave it two commands, shrink the 899GB C: to 110GB's and the new unused are to an NTFS drive. Off it went, did the shrink (I assumed) and said it had to reboot. Well that didn't not go well, BSOD and too fast to read. No way out either. On top of this, this system is UEFI SECURE BOOT BIOS. Change that and it doesn't work either as it can't find a boot drive.
Hello Dell... tell them what I did and the first thing they want to run is the 20 minute diagnostics which of course pass. Next checking every BIOS setting (I have to tell them as they can't log in since the computer will not boot). Next is try to get to Windows load fail screen... never happens...
OK, this computer came with some cables and TWO sheets of paper, the warranty stuff and a quick install guide, NOTHING else.
After 1 hour and 20 minutes of wrangling with this they decided I needed the Windows DVD which they are mailing to me. With that of course I can boot to it and repair the system.
Two hours later a light goes off in my head! I've got other W8.1 systems, I'll make the recovery USB drive over there. Did that, booted to it (it is a chore and BIOS changes needed to boot to a DVD with the secure boot it seems), went to Troubleshooting and selected 'Fix Windows Booting'. Poof, system boot and AOAMI then started again, this time to format the new drive, rebooted, and I was back working, phew....
Now I hope I don't hit problems trying to move the backup to the SSD....
What a PAIN, and boy did I collect a ton of stuff I need to 'find again' in 5 years on this computer!
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Post by warlock on Apr 28, 2014 1:13:51 GMT
Thanks for the update Irvsp. I for one found your writing a very interesting read. Surprised I guess that Dell was willing to help, since none of the problems were caused by them it seems. Not often you hear good stories about company tech support. Good luck with the SSD. Be interested in how that goes too.
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Post by irvsp on Apr 28, 2014 10:53:39 GMT
The computer was in the house 2 days, and I did nothing illegal, nothing said I could not shrink the volume. So Dell first tried to see if the computer h/w failed. Once it was clear that it didn't, the idea was to put me back to the shipped state. Problem was the 'traditional' ways were not working. Normally if you fail to boot any Windows OS you'll open a screen asking what you want to do after a few attempts for Windows to boot. I've seen it happen before and since W8 is has been different. You get a few choices, and one is the troubleshooter. I did see the continuous booting before when I did another 'stupid' thing. On ALL drives I used CHKDSK drive: /R and I have 3 drives, C:, K:, and L:. That /R takes a good bit of time and they were scheduled for the next boot. C: is a small SSD, K: isn't that small (500GB's but sparsely populated), but L: is the back-up 1TB drive and quite full of the compressed back-ups which makeup about 1/2 of it. Machine is SATA II only as well. Well on boot C: was done in a matter of minutes, K: took at least an hour. When this is done during boot and unlike when done under he running system or using a boot disk there are updates and progress shown. With no progress shown it was hard to tell what was going on. I used another computer and discovered it could take up to 16 hours to do that 1TB drive. No way to cancel so I just rebooted with a power cycle. Booting picked up again doing the CHKDSK and the machine was too fast to cancel it. Searched and discovered the command and removed it with a boot disk that had a command prompt. Booted fine after that. Well I was into the same thing I guess, or similar. The part of Windows that makes the failed boot decision wasn't even getting to it. We tried a lot of things, but it didn't matter. BTW, this was the first Dell system (last one bought 2 years ago) that shipped with NO media. If it was the fix would also have been easy. Don't forget, Dell was only trying to get me back to SHIPPED state, not fix the problem. If this had happened 2 months after I got it I'd lose a lot of stuff, but basically I had not added anything but Norton's SSR 2013 so far in preparation for the move to the SSD. I had another option too, using SSR to just re-install the back-up it took a few minutes before. Wasn't sure it would work as the C: drive was shrunk. I might have made that work one way or the other. I did learn now how to boot a DVD, got to mess with the BIOS and put the system into Legacy mode. In Secure boot it seems only C: and a USB Flash Drive (probably an external too) works. I need to do some research on this so I can use it easily. Today my drive cables come (no extra's in the computer) and another 1TB back-up drive. Then the SSD game begins. If all goes well a few days of loading programs and moving data. Two interesting tidbits: - Since I turned on the new computer, THIS ONE has not died since then? Does it know something ?
- When I booted it up it created a network connection via HOMEGROUP. Since I have a mix of OS's here I don't use that but use the normal old network settings. I've been able to access this computer not in a homegroup? Need to see if I can access the XP system later? Seems odd. It is wireless now, but when I move it here replacing this computer I'll hardwire it, should be able to get it setup correctly. Maybe it will be better to use a HG, but we've got grandkids that come with computers, so that could present problems too. Never investigated HG before, more to look at later.
Dell media should also arrive soon, should be interesting to see what I get? Man, I don't write anything small, do I? Seems like I get into some deep stuff and it takes time to explain, sorry.
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Post by Admin_Vistamike on Apr 28, 2014 10:56:51 GMT
Irv, never apologise for you very precise and diligent postings! I don't run win 8 (yet) but I setup and repair. I have found Windows disk management very difficult to use. As in all other OS's I prefer to use MiniTool Partition Manager, which has never failed me yet. Pretty sure you have used this before though. D/l MiniTool link>>>>>
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Post by irvsp on Apr 28, 2014 12:10:12 GMT
I don't run win 8 (yet) but I setup and repair. I have found Windows disk management very difficult to use. As in all other OS's I prefer to use MiniTool Partition Manager, which has never failed me yet. Pretty sure you have used this before though. D/l MiniTool link>>>>> I needed one I could boot to and then run. Can't resize the running partition usually. Win DiskMgr can't do a good job when it is on the running drive. Problem is how NTFS is structured. Old FAT drives, easy, just figure out the drive size, does everything fit, and move it. Only problem was when the open files were above the line. A few reboots as the drive was shrunk as much as it could and you accomplished the task. Not so with NTFS due to its file structure. $MFT is always open and there is a copy I believe too? One I recall is at the end of the disk and some reserved space as well. DM just can't move it much and shrinking a drive a large amount it has/had problems with. You can try multiple times but eventually you can't go lower, at least it didn't work under W7 which was the last time I tried it. Maybe they fixed it but I didn't bother trying. I used this, www.disk-partition.com/free-partition-manager.html, as I already had a bootable DVD for it. One problem that my version 'might' have been old I guess? This one also had the SSD clone option, I might try this first, after I update of course.
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Post by irvsp on Apr 29, 2014 13:00:06 GMT
This computer must be 'alive' and have 'feelings'. Since the new computer arrived and I powered it on, this one HAS NOT had a problem, 3 days in a row now.... Go figure...
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Post by irvsp on May 14, 2014 11:29:44 GMT
This computer must be 'alive' and have 'feelings'. Since the new computer arrived and I powered it on, this one HAS NOT had a problem, 3 days in a row now.... Go figure... For anyone that cares, it has NOT crashed again and stays on for hours! I'd almost laugh but my wallet hurts Funny part is I did NOTHING to the old computer. Didn't remove programs, modify anything, or even add programs. It was on every day until last Sat. Last Wed. I moved it off my desk so I can use the new computer on it. It was put on another desk next to my wife's back-up computer (we relegate our old computers to that desk and have them network connected in case we need something or the grandkids are here and want to use a computer). There was ONE thing I did do on the old computer, I opened the case to get screws for the new drives I was putting into the new computer. New one had no spare screws but the old one did have them. Opening the case has in the past 'cured' the problem for a time. Go figure? Oh well, I now have 2 fast computers to use if I want.
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Post by GuiltySpark on May 14, 2014 14:54:16 GMT
Very strange Irv, maybe there's a problem with certain Hardware/Firmware that was previously unknown (or just not spoken about for marketing purposes)
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Post by irvsp on May 14, 2014 23:51:55 GMT
Very strange Irv, maybe there's a problem with certain Hardware/Firmware that was previously unknown (or just not spoken about for marketing purposes) No. at least I doubt it. The infuriating part was sometimes after I took an 'action', like replace a component, delete some programs, or auto-starts/services from running, for a period of time it would not happen? In order of me 'tackling' this problem: - Thought it was heat related, cleaned the inside and all heatsinks of dust. Worked fine for a few days.
- Thought it could be a loose connector, made sure ALL were snug and even disconnected and reconnected them. Worked fine for a few days.
- Video card was not fully supported in Win 8 by ATI, purchased and installed one that was, worked fine for awhile.
- Discovered running CHKDSK /F on boot seemed to have stopped the problem, but only for awhile, probably a problem due to the reboots which I guess wee loss of a power signal?
- Had a returned original SSD sitting out of the system, swapped out the newer one, worked fine for awhile.
- Opened the case yet again and checked everything. Worked fine for a few days.
However lately NOTHING I did changed it? I relegated myself to turning on the computer and then having breakfast. If it didn't reboot itself I did (had an app that told me the time of the last boot) unless it was working, which was very rare, usually BSOD (varying one that made NO sense) or frozen. I then REALLY searched the Inet. Discovered a very few posts that suggest this is a symptom of a capacitor failing or about to fail. Likely suspects, the Motherboard or PSU. PSU replacements would be cheap, but I can't get a new one for a 5 year old Dell. eBay has many as do other vendors. All are labeled 'used' or 'scavenged'. "Replacement" PSU's just do not exist as Dell uses proprietary parts mostly, like the Motherboard. The few I've seen posts that people have put in either can't completely be secured to the case or connectors need to be modified or replaced. Didn't want to fool with that and if the motherboard, price was an issue as these are expensive. So I bit the bullet and get a new system. Now what I might suspect is possibly a bad solder joint on the motherboard. It usually worked for a period of time AFTER the case was opened, which meant moving it. Now I've really moved it, picked it up and moved it about 12 feet and it got some bumps putting it down and sliding it in place. I do have loose screw somewhere in the case, but not on the motherboard side. Dropped it years ago putting in a hard drive. Doubt that is causing a problem, but I wonder if there could be something under the motherboard that stands up on its side. Can not open the case there, I'd have to take everything out to get to the screws on the motherboard. Not worth it. Maybe some day I'll figure it out when the actual part fails? The cost of all this was aggravation, $115 for the video card, and the SSD I got for $110 when the one in the computer failed. Since I've put that in the new one it saved me from buying it now. Old computer and SSD was SATA II, new SSD was SATA III, and the new computer is SATA III as well, so I came out OK on that end. Just 'funny' since I got the new one powered on the old decided to work, spooky!
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Post by warlock on May 15, 2014 0:08:22 GMT
Well Irv since all is working now. One of those problem cannot be duplicated scenarios. I would lean toward a hardware issue, may never know.
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Post by irvsp on May 15, 2014 0:15:15 GMT
Well Irv since all is working now. One of those problem cannot be duplicated scenarios. I would lean toward a hardware issue, may never know. No, I'm sure it will come back. Someday though the actual failure will be a hard one and then I'll know. Electrical and s/w problems don't fix themselves.
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